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How bots affect game play & Can you have fair teams?


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#1
Snoid

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Should real players try to keep sides even while playing against bots?

My opinion is no. Playing with bots creates a whole different game play dynamic.

This afternoon (8-7-12) I was playing on B2 and as usual, there were a lot of bots and more real people were on offense. The number of peeps did change throughout the day. I've been on that server when all of the real players will either go offense or defense and play against the bots... or even have a bot war. My personal view is to go offense because it's harder to win against a bunch of bots who are defending.
During play, |>B<|Defender wanted to even up the sides with real people. The offense was "stacked" and he mentioned it was unfair for the defense. I find it almost impossible to win against bots and humans (even numbers) if you're on the offense. The defense is very tough. It's hard enough winning with all people on the offense. My suggestion to him was to join the offense and go against the bots... or to eliminate the bots and then even up the teams. At some point... the bots were sent home... and the teams were evened up.

Defender has his own point of view on this and I invite him and everyone else to jump in and give us your thoughts.

Edited by Snoid, 08 August 2012 - 03:17 AM.


#2
Screwloose

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Just a opinion
I think when humans and bots are playing all humans should go to offense. But if you have a human bot mix, the human numbers should be even on both sides. Bots are better on Offense I think, On Defense they just run in circles.
Even when this all happens some humans stack to be on the better team, because all they really care about is kill sprees and Stats.
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#3
peyote

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Even numbers alone do not account for the different skills players have, and so that alone does not make teams always fair.
I enjoy when being with lots of bots, against mostly humans, to make a fireteam with bots .. and have them guard me.

#4
Defender

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Hi,

Ok, here's my take on this - I was merily playing away, knowing that there were about ten players each side (some bots and some humans on each side, quite evenly balanced). I noticed the team that I was on was getting beaten twice or more map after map, and I also noticed what had materialised during gameplay was 7 humans (+3 bots on the other side) ,and 3 humans (and 7 bots on my side) leading to the obvious reasonably expected wins with the more powerful side. The bots after all are quite often good at bumping into walls and other players in their travels - and the humans are very good at team work and getting objectives done.

So my point is - when players join could most of us be more fair minded and make a sporting decision to at least try and even up the humans' sides numbers? After all, take the Olympics as an example - we don't see unfair sides numbers, we see a referee often, we don't even see 2 v 1, we see a sporting chance for each side to win from the start of play.

Just a note - when players arrive on B2 (or B4 - though this is managed well) we often see 10 players v 10 players in "L" map view mode. What we all need to do is press the button below "Esc" to view the actual players' names and descriptions in order to quickly work out which side has already got too many humans in. Yes I know some like Snoid like to choose an attacking team in certain favoured maps to them personally, but, my simple request is to help the players already on the lower skilled side not have the concerns that there are perhaps too many unfair minded people out there simply just wanting to win each map easier with domination map after map.

#5
G0rt

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Extra Cheese please.
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#6
Red

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95% of the time I join the attacking team (offence) regardless of human bot ratio. As Pey said if there are less humans on my team I make a fire-team of bots so they follow me. Attacking is way more fun and challenging. :D

I've seen the bots get stuck in ammo/health rooms or get stuck somewhere, I try to push them free but they walk right back in. LOL

I'd like to see all the humans on the attacking team for botwars but we haven't been doing botwars all the often. I'd also like to see the bots run and jump alittle while exiting spawn or trying to get to where they are going. You can always tell a human from a bot very easily, most humans are running and jumping across the map while bots walk in a group making for a easy monster kill. :)

Edited by Red, 08 August 2012 - 02:25 PM.

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#7
killjoy

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to make a fireteam with bots .. and have them guard me.

Interesting - You can make a fireteam with Bots :-)
Is that fair !
I prefer to make a Fireteam with the Swiss - and let them protect me :-)

#8
djbo

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Fireteams with bots is fun, shoot swiss even more fun :)

Playing with bots I switch teams constantly, always go to the attacking side, well mostly :)

#9
Ace

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At the beginning of each map, it should be decided by the players how they want to play. Do they want humans vs. bots? Do they want no bots? If it's botwar then it is obvious which team to join. If it's humans and bots vs. humans and bots, then treat it like no bots are there - either join the team on offense or the weaker team (by prw, k/d, or xp gained per map). If there is a big difference in the amount of humans on a team, odds are that the team with fewer humans is the weaker team, so join that one.

This goes back to the same discussion we've had over and over. Try to keep the teams balanced. It's no fun for one side to dominate and the other side to get destroyed (unless its a botwar ;) but even then it gets boring after a while imo). Those of us who care about this probably do it already. Others either don't care because they don't realize it, or don't care because they want to be on the better team.

#10
leaDpoisAn

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Bots are predictable and can clump on some maps, I prefer them to play defense at a ratio of 1.5 to 1. If there are too many its like a Zombie Apocalypse, they kill you by shear numbers.

#11
neurosis

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Wow, never thought that this would be a topic of conversation.

I almost "always" join the attacking team when joining a bot server. Its too easy to sit in defense picking bots off. They are too predictable.

I dont really take games against bots very seriously and feel no obligation to even the teams as I would if both teams were all human.
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#12
Bill

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Can you make a bot game where the bot team has only panzerfausts?

#13
Defender

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After a few days passing by, and reading a few more replies to this topic, I see that there are surprisingly :not_i: (oh well, a little predictably!) too many self centered opinions indicating to all who read this discussion that there is not enough of " I care " to this. This problem materialises even during the course of just one map, so, I do appreciate that it is not noticed immediately.

Ace, you hit the nail on the head, thanks.

Edited by Defender, 10 August 2012 - 01:03 PM.


#14
Bean

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i think bots on a server is a joke my self..lol really should nt take bots serious ..or a server with them on it..


You'd think someone with such a high level would be a bit more supportive of the community. You do realize that three out of four Bunker servers have bots, right? We all have our opinions, but someone in your position should know better than to be so bloody dismissive of our servers and our members...

Maybe there's something else in your post that makes up for this, or qualifies it in some way. I really don't know, because I can never understand at least half of what you write...

#15
Snoid

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I'm not keeping score here... but of those who are looking at this issue seriously (cough cough) it appears there is a real split in how to handle this. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, I understand the whole "keeping teams even" philosophy, and actually agree with it, but I still think it's not possible with bots. I agree with Red, Screwloose, and neurosis who usually go to the attacking team. As neurosis said... going on defense with bots is too easy because you can sit at a bottle neck and pick off the bots as they come toward you. I think it's harder to attack with bot teams and that's why I will switch to the attacking team. I do see some sense in Ace's idea of picking how you want to play each map at the beginning... but then there is the problem of people joining the server in the middle of the battle and getting upset because they've chosen the wrong side and want people to play the way they think it should be. Let's hear more opinions.
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#16
SickOne

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Dont you just love defending against a bunch of bots , blowing them to smithereens ? :D When theyre mixed with humans . . the more the merrier . . Bot play is purely for own fun . . even humans are totally overestimated . I prefer playing with lots of bots against bots and even more humans ;)

#17
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is this a thread about captns support of the b community..u like to argue with me ..lol alot..

everytime i say something ..u gotta attack me ..and i am no one around b bunker neva have neva will be im just one person ..

with my opinion in witch was asked of me..its funny for some one who can only understand half what i type u got a full opinion on me dont u ..

its ok u dont like me its obvious u dont like me..

just makes me want to woop ur ass more on the server..understand the game bean dont ever try to understand the players ..just the game. and for ur info .. i play on b1 not b2 or b4 or b10000 i play on b1 i support b1 ..if i was a server admin with actual server ability and could place and decide as i like et u wouldnt see any bots or noobs orlame mods to attract 10yrolds to a old game..loltheres a whole et world out there u know nothing about bean .has nothing to do with bbunker and i was there playing long before i was invited to join bbunker.save the drama for ur moma and i cant wait too see u on b1..

AND JUST SO EVERYONE HERE KNOWS I DIDNT START PLAYING ET SO I COULD HANG OUT IN A FORUM TALKING TO U.

i actually started playing so i could kill u over and over and over.and if this is what is asked of a admin around here to conform to ur way take ur admin powers what little they are and stickem in ur whoha.im ok with pwnnig ur ass as a level 0.

oh and remember this bean i earned my admin..earned did u see it earned ..but its ok take it away ..i dont need that to get my et fix.and i doubt u really here for me or anyone else..

Edited by *CapTn*, 10 August 2012 - 04:24 PM.


#18
neurosis

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After a few days passing by, and reading a few more replies to this topic, I see that there are surprisingly :not_i: (oh well, a little predictably!) too many self centered opinions indicating to all who read this discussion that there is not enough of " I care " to this. This problem materialises even during the course of just one map, so, I do appreciate that it is not noticed immediately.

Ace, you hit the nail on the head, thanks.



Dude, your being silly.. Just because someone does not share your opinion it does not mean that they do not care. I see you as being self centered. I think that Snoid has proven that he cares even MORE than you do by creating this post and trying to figure out what is thought of as right or acceptable from the community as a whole and he did it without whining about it or chastising others opinions.

chastise is probably too strong a word in this case lmao.

Edited by neurosis, 10 August 2012 - 05:29 PM.

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#19
neurosis

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And Captn,

Your fucking hard core man. ;)

Edited by neurosis, 10 August 2012 - 05:39 PM.


#20
Bean

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is this a thread about captns support of the b community..u like to argue with me ..lol alot..

everytime i say something ..u gotta attack me ..and i am no one around b bunker neva have neva will be im just one person ..

with my opinion in witch was asked of me..its funny for some one who can only understand half what i type u got a full opinion on me dont u ..

its ok u dont like me its obvious u dont like me..

just makes me want to woop ur ass more on the server..understand the game bean dont ever try to understand the players ..just the game. and for ur info .. i play on b1 not b2 or b4 or b10000 i play on b1 i support b1 ..if i was a server admin with actual server ability and could place and decide as i like et u wouldnt see any bots or noobs orlame mods to attract 10yrolds to a old game..loltheres a whole et world out there u know nothing about bean .has nothing to do with bbunker and i was there playing long before i was invited to join bbunker.save the drama for ur moma and i cant wait too see u on b1..

AND JUST SO EVERYONE HERE KNOWS I DIDNT START PLAYING ET SO I COULD HANG OUT IN A FORUM TALKING TO U.

i actually started playing so i could kill u over and over and over.and if this is what is asked of a admin around here to conform to ur way take ur admin powers what little they are and stickem in ur whoha.im ok with pwnnig ur ass as a level 0.

oh and remember this bean i earned my admin..earned did u see it earned ..but its ok take it away ..i dont need that to get my et fix.and i doubt u really here for me or anyone else..


Thanks for proving, and reinforcing, my point.

I'm astounded at your lack of class in this reply. True leadership is about tolerance and respect. I also think that true leadership requires defending the integrity of the community - that's my motivation with these exchanges.

I used to think you were a stalwart defender of Bunker... that you really cared about the community. Now I think you treat it as your personal toilet. We deserve better.